Curse

Renegade26 · Dec 13, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

How does more ppl soloing and low-member partying increase the cost of materials? Surely supply goes up because there are more people interested in farming solo rather than with an 8 man group full of noobs (another point). 2-Man farming saves time, time spent getting materials, and you work out very quickly if you're teammate is good or not. The more skilled PuG's will be soloing because they'll learn much faster.

EternalTempest · Dec 13, 2006, 08:01 PM // 20:01

If you were to "nerf" this.. then just make min party size and don't touch the skills. That being said, I feel that nerfing this will cause the price to go up, not down.

I use to be anti-runner, must play through the entire game "proper", anti~etc, but the longer I played the longer I can see how beautiful guildwars was made (by design) to allow all different types of styles of play by the players.

Play the way you want to. If the object is to lower the price, I would petition on setting a max "cap" on value for ecto instead. When something gets nerfed, within a week there will be new builds other jobs something will replace them.

/Not Signed

Bergil · Dec 27, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

The proliferation of specialist builds makes the price go up, not because of supply and demand, but because the specialists have a monopoly. If you're not the right profession, you can't say "I'm not paying that, I'll go and farm it myself, and even if you are, you may not have the right skills or equipmant.That is why specialist farming drives up prices, because it creates a monopoly.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Dec 27, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

I skipped reading all but the first few posts as this is a terrible idea. It would drive prices through the roof in addition to forcing people to waste more time waiting for a group. @ OP- life is not fair, just because you can't solo some of these places doesn't mean others shouldn't. If you would like to try and make life fair, go join the democratic party, do not post on gwguru.

Winterclaw · Dec 27, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

I would argue against further nerfing the 55ers because if you do, they'll point out the solo farming thread and demand that every idea in there or linked to be nerfed as well.

Soloing is good because not everyone wants to deal with henchies/heroes/other players all the time. Likewise some people might want to farm an item or a skill point and that takes a ton longer in groups.

As for the other groups, if they were smart enough to figure out a build or use one already figured out, why not allow it most of the time? Anet isn't completely anti-farming.

Liberations · Dec 27, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

I think they should do something about farming, and work on a way to keep the prices for things at a price that would always make the 1337-ness of them the same. I don't think what we need is a decrease in price, but an increase in price while making the means reasonable. Yes, I definately agree in getting rid of solo farming, but not for the supremacy of team farming. There should be something initiated that makes things hard yet not impossible to attain.

Things that have gone down in price alot-

1.Celestial Sigils- Celestial Sigils have gone down tremendously in price and are continuing to go down. Something to get around this is to remove Celestial Sigils from HoH, and instead put something that is exclusive to HoH, and maybe even some gold (money) drops there. Afterwards ANet could make a fixed, somewhat reasonable price for the Sigils (from 7k - 20k maybe?).

2. Globs of Ectoplasm and Obsidian Shards- I think the price has gone down too far, making Fissure of Woe armor a little too attainable. I agree that it needed to be dropped, but not by this much.

Because the FoW Armor and such would be harder to get, new prestige items could be added, but not as 1337 as the current FoW armor. This works for HoH too, but having a Guild Hall is very important for a guild. This new system should be primarily directed at FoW and UW.

*edit*
ArenaNet has stated that they want their games to be based on Player Skill, not hours played and repetitive cheap build copies used. Because this is PvE, enemies are alot easier to get around- The farming system has to be reworked.

count your fingers · Dec 27, 2006, 04:10 AM // 04:10

You sound just like the OP.

Quote:

...but an increase in price while making the means reasonable.

Basically: Easy to get = Low Demand = Low price. Imaging there being only 1 of something in the world. Everyone who wants it is going to have to bid higher and higher to get it due to all the other people who want it. Increasing availability will only lower the price as more people decide to get it elsewhere for a lower price.

Quote:

Afterwards ANet could make a fixed, somewhat reasonable price for the Sigils (from 7k - 20k maybe?).

I thought you wanted prices to go up? I'm confused.

Tbh, I think going to HA and buying a sigil from the trader is quite reasonable. All it requires is a few consecutive wins in the Random Arenas to get there.

Quote:

I think the price has gone down too far,

So you basically want to be able to get more money for farming FoW/UW?

It's just supply and demand. More people selling ectos/shards = lower price.

Just my two cents. Again.

Orphan Anthem · Dec 27, 2006, 04:52 AM // 04:52

55ing is simply a explotation of the drop rate calulators. Nothing more nothing less.

Sence the consensis is that more people=more chance for screw ups the calculation should favor more people then less people.

Make the drop rate for a 55er be the same as the drop rate for a single person in a group. If done correctly ecto/shard price would flux for a little while but when people settle into it and accept it and the price should go back to normal. Price might even go DOWN as more people would be inclined to join groups.

Jabilo · Dec 27, 2006, 05:15 AM // 05:15

I'm not really bothered about this. The people that still solo or 2 man The Underworld or FoW deserve the ecto they get in my opinion for having patience enough to do it, as it's become alot more annoying since the scatter when mobs are larger than 3 update.

"Limiting drops for teams who have less players then it should be" isn't technically right in my opinion, teams can be any size, if there SHOULDN'T be only 1 or 2 people in a party I think anet would have put in something on Grenth/Balthazar by now that says 'There are not enough people in your party to enter this area' or something, like locked doors when before you finish quests and stuff - but that still wouldn't stop people being able to use two man teams, as two people can still make a team of 8 to go into Underworld etc using 3 heros each... just flag them off screen so you still get all the drops assigned to you again, so this wouldn't achieve what you were trying to either I don't think.

As I say I don't really have a problem with it, you don't need much gold to be able to craft perfect weapons and armor. People only pay for skins that they would prefer, and if they want something that's rare, they do their farming, trading or whatever it is so they can get it. Alot of people enjoy farming as it is an effective way to make gold to get yourself something nice with a little effort, or even to just do little things for themselves like trying to collect 250 of each material and stuff as their in game hobby etc.

As I figure your thread seems to be about the amount gold and rare materials that the small party teams are getting by doing these runs, I have this kind of irrational but true fact about collecting items and money in game: I can't remember any "nerf power trading/cap the number of traded items you can make profit on per day" threads going around. Which is a bit ironic really, as trading makes people that know the value of items alot more money/ectos alot faster than farming ever would over the same period of time and they don't even need to leave an outpost to do it

count your fingers · Dec 27, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan Anthem

55ing is simply a explotation of the drop rate calulators. Nothing more nothing less.

Possibly. But then so is all solo farming.

Quote:

Sence the consensis is that more people=more chance for screw ups the calculation should favor more people then less people.

I always thought that less people=more chance for screw-ups. Solo builds usually revolve around a few key skills - in a 55 build, getting PS interrupted or disabled once usually means death. Not so in a team of 8 players.

Quote:

Make the drop rate for a 55er be the same as the drop rate for a single person in a group. If done correctly ecto/shard price would flux for a little while but when people settle into it and accept it and the price should go back to normal. Price might even go DOWN as more people would be inclined to join groups.

I don't really follow what you're saying. One person is doing the work of 8, so they should get less reward? You seem to be convinced that ecto and shard prices are too low as it is, yet seem to think that your idea is good as it results in prices dropping even further?

Imo if this happened, more people would join groups as they are invariably faster than solo or smaller teams. However, this would encourage more eliteism as groups attempt not to get first-timers or noobs.

Orphan Anthem · Dec 27, 2006, 05:48 AM // 05:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by count your fingers

I don't really follow what you're saying. One person is doing the work of 8, so they should get less reward? You seem to be convinced that ecto and shard prices are too low as it is, yet seem to think that your idea is good as it results in prices dropping even further?

Imo if this happened, more people would join groups as they are invariably faster than solo or smaller teams. However, this would encourage more eliteism as groups attempt not to get first-timers or noobs.

the work of 8? not at all. 55ing is just controling the flow of damage to a consistant but managable ammount then using skills to turn that damage back into itself. not the work of 8 just the outcome 8 people would have but at a much slower rate.

Eliteism? this isnt HA, no ranks for time spent in UW of FoW. Sure your going to take 1 person over another if you KNOW he/she is better.

Basicly id like it if the equasion was more balanced. 1 person 55's and gets 3 shards. Same ammount of time 1 person in a group gets at best 1. the question is, is this fair?

count your fingers · Dec 27, 2006, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orphan Anthem

the work of 8? not at all. 55ing is just controling the flow of damage to a consistant but managable ammount then using skills to turn that damage back into itself. not the work of 8 just the outcome 8 people would have but at a much slower rate.

That's what I meant. One person killing the same number and type of enemies = doing the work for them. The attraction of a full group is that it is safer and quicker, but you're less likely to get as many "good" drops.

However, this about all farming in a group less than party size, not just 55 monks.

Quote:

Basicly id like it if the equasion was more balanced. 1 person 55's and gets 3 shards. Same ammount of time 1 person in a group gets at best 1. the question is, is this fair?

Imo yes it is. In the case of a 55 monk, if you get hit by a shatter enchantments or a knockdown while PS runs out, you are toast. Like I said earlier, the attraction of a full group is that your whole trip doesn't revolve around 1 or 2 skills.

Tbh I haven't even 55d in FoW. I've run Remmeh's R/Me forest build a few times, and quite often I get around the same number of shards per trip as I do from a full team of 8 which takes around the same time.

Think I'd better stop posting before this gets locked for getting off-topic

Kai Nui · Dec 27, 2006, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Too bad people cookie cut so much, otherwise I would say don't punish people's ingenuity. Unfortunately that's really not the case, although someone thought it up. Honestly I'm happy how it is. Keep it the same and don't nerf a thing.

Orphan Anthem · Dec 27, 2006, 06:10 AM // 06:10

it wouldnt be a nerf, it would be a balance. make it prophitable for everyone not just a select few

nightshade_eyes · Dec 27, 2006, 06:23 AM // 06:23

The big critical flaw in the OP's arguement is that it is assumed that groups MUST have the max number of people in it. Most areas including late missions really only need five or six people to succeed. The max of eight simply allows for flexibility [i.e making up for lack of player skill with more people].

The OP would of been good if it had a point. Nice try. Maybe the rant you write will actually have something worth reading.

Crom The Pale · Dec 27, 2006, 06:52 AM // 06:52

Attempts have been made before to stop solo farming in the UW and the only one that I felt was a very smart move on Anet was the addition of DyingNightmares.

Something like increasing the variaty of mobs for the first part would push out solo farming.

However other than solo farmers ive no problem with a small team that works very well together to achieve higher drop rates. This is team work and should be rewarded.

I do not support nerfing of skills, but these are high end locations that should require some skill, if that means that the party of 3-5 can do it with the perfect build and some well timed skills thats acceptable. Having a single 55monk walk in and kill everything just doesn't sit well with me, but then I'm a Warrior and maybe theres a bit of jealousy in my words.......

Kai Nui · Dec 27, 2006, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Personally I believe anet condones farming, it's been around this long. I just think they don't want it to be easy, it should be a challenging thing. Dying Nightmares made it tougher, but not impossible.

silara_jorinset · Jan 16, 2007, 01:57 AM // 01:57

I partly agree with the OP intentions and think that rather than punishing smaller groups with reduced drop rate, a bonus drop rate should be given to larger teams. This would allow solo/small teams to still continue with their better drop rate but also give more incentive for large groups. As has been said previously, only some professions are viable for reduced farm teams due to the way that profession operates. As it currently stands its quite difficult to get an underworld group unless you are a particular profession and want to do two/three man due to the limits of professions and also what have become standard farming teams that everyone expects. It seems a great shame to me that the Underworld dungeon has become so limited and difficult for a balanced full group to enter due to the greater rewards of small team farming.
Likewise for other areas such as Sorrows Furnace where people only run reduced teams for green farms with little interest in any quest other than Oro or FA.

=HT=Ingram · Jan 16, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

I personally like the 1 time concept for chests and stuff. Too bad it can't happen with drops. 1 time per character for every green in the game... Green farming suddenly GONE over night and the market is not overrun with them either so they do not skyrocket. Its called an artificial ceiling, and will never happen so don't freak yet!! Its just a dream of people that believe every player should have a fair shake at getting any green they want at least once without being extorted to either Get one or buy one. but thats besides the point.

However in the end that does not solve for ecto... and there really is not a solution... except I will tell you this. An average 2 man UW team gets like 8 ecto MAX per run and it lasts about 20 mins... Now every time I have went or heard of groups going with a full team and went the whole way down to like the spawning pools or something like that, Instead of just the everyday farmed Smites... Our party saw more ecto drop per player then any 2 man team could dream. BUT!!! the down side is the time involved in getting down there... an hour or two at least... SO in the end I think it all averages out... If you can get a full party for an UW sweep, or a 2 man farm with 3-4 runs in the same time. You should end up with about the same amount of ecto in the same amount of time...

Now with all that said its worth noting that greens nor shards nor ecto nor White or black dyes, or anything else that is over priced is REQUIRED to enjoy this game to its fullest. Indeed max armor and Max weapons are available to all players for FREE from collectors if they so choose. They may not be the skin they want but they are there and just as good as the uber expensive weapons and armor in combat. So in all reality I don't see the big deal over ecto prices... I cash them in when I get a full stack to NPCs driving the price down every time. The more people do that the more the prices drop for the masses that want them. I just don't have a use for something that is that unnecessary in the game. I'll go with a party when asked by my alliance to go , but I either end up giving them anything I get ecto wise or sell it off if I don't know them that well. It would be different if Fissure armor was say a +5 to +10 armor class or something, but its not. So there is just no need for it, in my personal achievement goals. If you all want it, more power to you, glad you have the time and resources to waste it on.

Atara Ars Namadra · Jan 16, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Well its a good try to stabilize prices... but look at ecto prices now! they are around 9-10k when duo UW was still alive and healthy they were usually at about 6-7k! Now people dont have a viable way of making fast money... Ectos sell fast... greens dont....